HNW question

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Re: HNW question

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JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:02 am
RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:57 am
JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:02 am

Attempt to get back on topic.

HASH NOISE WALLS.

Maybe this thread has hit the harsh noise wall...hah

Set out a 3 HNW related points that we can come to terms and resolution with.
That way we can maybe define some elements of HNW...open ended discussion isn't gonna allow us to define or resolve anything....although again this topic is it self becoming harsh text wall

Or not...

1. "I'd encourage anyone who is interested in finding out more about noise who hasn't listened to it before just to take a radio, tune it to between two stations and turn up the volume."


2. " There is absolutely no message whatsoever in my work; "


3. "the harsh noise wall is militantly pure in its non-representation"


1 is what I would suggest for anyone into noise if they haven't done that already.
I would pressume that anyone really into noise would do this naturally on thier own.
Now maybe some younger people that haven't grown up with radio may have overlooked the free noise you get with the radio.
My favorite is when two stations overlap but that doesn't happen so much anymore with the radio siganls being digital instead of analog.


2. Don't believe that at all. Yes I've noticed thats been the main driver of this conversation. People say they are a certain way or believe certains things but really they don't or aren't those things. They just like romance of whatever they are claiming.
Its fashion not reality.

3 naw not all that militant or pure
Its just more fashion.

Nothing wrong..too wrong...with being fashionable but making and setting fashion trends should be a goal rather than just following trends.
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Re: HNW question

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here jilat...watched this last night and thought some of it could apply to noise or hnw.
They discuss why and how they do what they do. Perfomance writing what works and what doesn't and why...the fear that motivates thier creativity.
Really excellent talk
One thing to take away from this...you can be the top of your field making money adored by millions and lose it all over night...dont pull your dick out in front of people..Louis ck is still a genius.


"He has the right attitude as long as it works"
Last edited by RUBBISH on Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HNW question

Post by NoiseWiki »

JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:43 am No - to carry information about something isn't the same thing as the thing. The label "Poison" isn't poisonous, but if true the contents is. The word 'hot' isn't hot, the word red isn't red.
Right so if a person puts out a release calles it HNW says it's meaningless then the content of CD is what it is.. it doesn't matter what the person says about it it could be a sine wave which is as meaningless as a the same length of whitenoise or maybe it's brownnoise etc.

Everything is meaningless. Noise is not unique in this.

JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:43 am No paradox unless you conflate being with meaning. Which you seem to?
And you confuse being the messenger with being a pest.
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Re: HNW question

Post by JLIAT »

RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:12 am
JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:02 am
RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:57 am


Maybe this thread has hit the harsh noise wall...hah

Set out a 3 HNW related points that we can come to terms and resolution with.
That way we can maybe define some elements of HNW...open ended discussion isn't gonna allow us to define or resolve anything....although again this topic is it self becoming harsh text wall

Or not...

1. "I'd encourage anyone who is interested in finding out more about noise who hasn't listened to it before just to take a radio, tune it to between two stations and turn up the volume."


2. " There is absolutely no message whatsoever in my work; "


3. "the harsh noise wall is militantly pure in its non-representation"


1 is what I would suggest for anyone into noise if they haven't done that already.
I would pressume that anyone really into noise would do this naturally on thier own.
Now maybe some younger people that haven't grown up with radio may have overlooked the free noise you get with the radio.
My favorite is when two stations overlap but that doesn't happen so much anymore with the radio siganls being digital instead of analog.
Yeh - digital radio, with old FM the white noise between stations contains no signal no message.
RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:12 am
2. Don't believe that at all.
Yes I see this Adrian and yourself think then he is not telling the truth and/or tricking people. Well I'll take his word, fits with his other writing, and my meeting with him. I see no reason to call him either a liar or a trickster. I do think people whose work is far from minimal might not like this stuff. But minimalism isn't confined to Vomir, and to not believe in the sincerity of minimal artists condemns huge amounts of art and artists.

But at the end of the day if you cant believe that idea, its pointless to continue this discussion. For me that statement, "no message" is true of many other works, and from this things follow. But if you do not think they are being true or if you think they are deluded or tricksters, no point in continuing. But as I said I see no evidence for thinking such minimalist works are not sincere.
RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:12 am
Yes I've noticed thats been the main driver of this conversation. People say they are a certain way or believe certains things but really they don't or aren't those things. They just like romance of whatever they are claiming.
Its fashion not reality.
You are welcome to think that, could it be also applied to all art. I'd rather accept the premise that what is said and done is sincere until I've good reason to think otherwise.
RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:12 am 3 naw not all that militant or pure
Its just more fashion.
Fine, I disagree. You've dissmissed a massive amount of art, if not all, why not say its all fashion?
RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:12 am Nothing wrong..too wrong...with being fashionable but making and setting fashion trends should be a goal rather than just following trends.
Again, that can apply to all art.

So is setting a trend better than following, and is that your goal?

And I think Vomir was more the trend setter than the follower..

And how do we establish who is the trend setter and who the followers- obviously you reject wiki... and other sources?

"Harsh noise wall, also known as wall noise or static noise, is an extreme subgenre of noise music, described as "a literal consistent, unflinching and enveloping wall of monolithic noise." The movement is spearheaded by French musician Vomir,"
"Cage's 4'33" = 273 seconds xe2x88x92273.15xc2xb0 C = absolute zero."
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Re: HNW question

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NoiseWiki wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:37 am
JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:43 am No - to carry information about something isn't the same thing as the thing. The label "Poison" isn't poisonous, but if true the contents is. The word 'hot' isn't hot, the word red isn't red.
Right so if a person puts out a release calles it HNW says it's meaningless then the content of CD is what it is.. it doesn't matter what the person says about it it could be a sine wave which is as meaningless as a the same length of whitenoise or maybe it's brownnoise etc.

Everything is meaningless. Noise is not unique in this.
No - somethings are meaningful, sentences, words, pictures... they signify something else. And sure a sine wave, silence, brown noise would also carry no meaning, as do Ad Reinhardt's Ultimate paintings amongst many other minimal works.
NoiseWiki wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:37 am
JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:43 am No paradox unless you conflate being with meaning. Which you seem to?
And you confuse being the messenger with being a pest.
Sorry. Maybe if this stuff about minimal art causes you discomfort and irritation I should stop.




Your absolutely right, i'm a pest.
"Cage's 4'33" = 273 seconds xe2x88x92273.15xc2xb0 C = absolute zero."
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Re: HNW question

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JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:39 am And I think Vomir was more the trend setter than the follower..

And how do we establish who is the trend setter and who the followers- obviously you reject wiki... and other sources?

"Harsh noise wall, also known as wall noise or static noise, is an extreme subgenre of noise music, described as "a literal consistent, unflinching and enveloping wall of monolithic noise." The movement is spearheaded by French musician Vomir,"

Yea it's like how you can agree upon a signal to communicate an idea using anything such if I make this puff of smoke it's means the enemy approaches. Likewise we have agreed that putting out an audio release with static on it means meaninglessness.
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Re: HNW question

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NoiseWiki wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:49 am
JLIAT wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:39 am And I think Vomir was more the trend setter than the follower..

And how do we establish who is the trend setter and who the followers- obviously you reject wiki... and other sources?

"Harsh noise wall, also known as wall noise or static noise, is an extreme subgenre of noise music, described as "a literal consistent, unflinching and enveloping wall of monolithic noise." The movement is spearheaded by French musician Vomir,"

Yea it's like how you can agree upon a signal to communicate an idea using anything such if I make this puff of smoke it's means the enemy approaches.
Well you agree of rules and meanings. So Puff Puff - long gap = Enemy. Puff puff puff - long gap = approaches. Just smoke means nothing like random letters.
NoiseWiki wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:49 am Likewise we have agreed that putting out an audio release with static on it means meaninglessness.
I think the phrase "means meaninglessness." is yours. I'd prefer that its possible to put out an audio of static. And this audio would have no meaning. And have no meaning for whatever reason you put it out. As static cannot in itself signifier a signified.

Now i'm worried, if i'm causing you discomfort?
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Re: HNW question

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Just cause I don't believe something doesnt make someone elses believes less valid or a lie.

Vomir may be honest with himself and about what he does but I'm not buying it.

Like no said before...nothing or meaninglessness is not meaningless or nothing since we have words and concepts revolving around them...something that is actually meaninglessnesss or nothing would be unknowable and not up for discussion since there is nothing to discuss.

Obviously there is meaning or we wouldnt be talking about it in such detail...meaninglessness has no details to discuss or if it does its meaningless.
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Re: HNW question

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RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:14 am Just cause I don't believe something doesnt make someone elses believes less valid or a lie.

Vomir may be honest with himself and about what he does but I'm not buying it.
If you think this is not true, or you do not buy it " There is absolutely no message whatsoever in my work; "
then you say he is mistaken. Now either he is wrong about his own work from ignorance or he is lying. I cant see any other explanation.
RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:14 am Like no said before...nothing or meaninglessness is not meaningless or nothing since we have words and concepts revolving around them...something that is actually meaninglessnesss or nothing would be unknowable and not up for discussion since there is nothing to discuss.
In which case you are saying that Vomir is mistaken and ignorant re 'meaningless' and 'nothing'

And I would disagree with your comments. If we can have something which means something, a signifier and its meaning is its signified, then we can have things with no meaning.

As for nothing, I've John Barrow's book xe2x80xa6
Image

And other literature on meaning, meaninglessness, AKA nonsense occurs in many publications. In computers there is even the op code NOP. = do nothing.

(i'll skip the nothing in philosophyxe2x80xa6)

Likewise infinity, that too can be discussed though not achieved.
RUBBISH wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:14 am
Obviously there is meaning or we wouldn't be talking about it in such detail...meaninglessness has no details to discuss or if it does its meaningless.
I happen to think that much of the cosmos has no meaning, and there is lots to discuss. And a problem with language which can be tricky, I.e. what do we mean by meaning, and meaninglessness. Now OK its my thing, and others may simply not be bothered, which is fine. Each to their own.

(I do like the bit in Barrow where he shows there are different zeros which are zero... its the kind of book that makes you think more and more about how stupid you are- in my case at least)
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Re: HNW question

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(I do like the bit in Barrow where he shows there are different zeros which are zero... its the kind of book that makes you think more and more about how stupid you are- in my case at least)
My uncle just wrote a book about zero and one and how our ideas about math counting and numbers is wrong.

All his charts looked like mandalas...

Zero isn't really nothing...its 1 or something along those lines. Its complicated and very simple all at once.

Yeah...the feeling of stupid. :D
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